EP #10: The Power of Mental Health in Sports and Business With Dr. Jimmy Moley
In this episode of Healthy Wealth, Chris Hall speaks with Dr. Jimmy Moley, a sports psychiatrist, about the critical intersection of mental health and performance. They discuss the importance of mental health for athletes and executives, the role of anxiety in performance, and techniques for managing it. Dr. Moley emphasizes the significance of physical health, social connections, and diet in enhancing mental acuity.
The conversation also explores the future of mental health with the integration of AI and wearable technology, highlighting the need for a holistic approach to well-being.
To listen to more episodes, hop over to https://reddingfinancialadvisors.com/podcast/
To find out more about Dr. Jimmy Moley, visit https://instagram.com/@jimmymoleymd
Transcription
Chris Hall (00:02.02)
Hello, this is Chris Hall and welcome to Healthy Wealth. For those of you guys who have been following me, this was started out as the Reading Financial Advisors podcast, but as I moved on, I realized that I really do want to talk about things that do with health and wealth, and that I really truly believe that you cannot be wealthy unless you are also healthy. You can have all the money in the world, but if you don’t feel good about yourself and you don’t feel good about your body, doesn’t feel good, then you’re not going to do well either. So this gives me a little bit more.
advantage to talk to different people. I’m extremely excited to announce my next guest, which is Dr. Jimmy Moley. And he is going to tell you a little bit about himself, but just really happy to have him on board. And we’re going to talk a little bit about mental health. And we’re also going to talk about, I’m assuming, concussions and things like that as well, right? Yeah, so all right, I’ll give you I’ll give you some time to talk about your opening. Give me a little bit about yourself, please.
Jimmy Moley, MD (00:53.74)
Yeah, sounds good. Yeah, thank you Chris for having me.
Jimmy Moley, MD (01:00.91)
Absolutely. So my name is Jimmy Molley. I’m a private adult and sports psychiatrist and my practice is based in Independence, Ohio, just outside of Cleveland. And, know, I kind of have a variety of educational backgrounds. I started off at the University of Notre Dame and then moved on to Ohio State for my medical school and residency education. I was at that point that I really developed an interest in sports and performance psychiatry. So thinking about, you know, high performing athletes and, you know, professionals, executives and that sort of thing. So.
developed just a special interest in that and went on to get an additional certificate of training in sports psychiatry and decided to open my private practice straight out of residency. So did that in July of 2024, things are going really well and I’m excited to continue to talk about mental health topics, especially like you said, in areas such as financial wealth that maybe we haven’t thought about them as traditionally in the past, right? But are starting to realize how it can be so important to thriving, you really in all aspects of life.
Chris Hall (02:00.101)
What led you towards this particular, you know, angle? mean, obviously, you know, mental health is huge. But like, why specifically did you go after sports? Did you have a sports background or?
Jimmy Moley, MD (02:13.688)
So I do, know, my growing up, actually, my family were pretty much all coaches. So I was involved in sports from a young age. I played sports for a long time and actually worked as a sports broadcaster for a few years before going into medical school. thank you. So, you know, I’ve been around, you know, athletes and in athletic cultures pretty much my whole life. So I knew going into medical school that I wanted to, work with athletes. And originally I thought that was going to be one of the more maybe traditional pathways, sports medicine, orthopedic surgery.
Chris Hall (02:25.762)
You absolutely have a sports broadcasters voice, no doubt.
Jimmy Moley, MD (02:43.992)
But then I came across my psychiatry rotation and really loved the way I was able to connect. Other specialties I think certainly have a lot of advantages, and for some people that makes the most sense. for me, being able to relate to people on a personal level, to affect mental health, I really felt make a deeper connection with the people I was helping and really made a world of difference. So once I realized that we could do that in a more athletic, executive atmosphere, that’s pretty much what sold me and there was no looking back after that.
Chris Hall (03:13.612)
Nice. Now, do you currently work with anybody at Ohio State? Any of the programs there?
Jimmy Moley, MD (03:19.532)
I do, so I have a number of relationships that I developed. I was there for a little over eight years and still have a close relationship with lot of the folks down in Columbus. That’s nice, I’m in Cleveland so not too far away and a lot of big sports culture, I would say, in both Cleveland and Columbus. It’s been good to become immersed. I’m originally from Cleveland, so get back home and get in areas that are very familiar but very exciting.
Chris Hall (03:38.205)
okay.
Chris Hall (03:41.783)
Nice. That’s awesome. I remember so it was years ago when I first became a financial advisor. So it’d be nine years ago. I remember reading a book called 10 minute toughness. Are you familiar with that book? Yeah, so that was really similar. He was a sports psychologist and he had worked with the St. Louis Cardinals and they were I guess pretty terrible. And then after working with them for like a year or two, they won back to back World Series championships. And so I feel like that’s really like
Jimmy Moley, MD (03:53.324)
I am, yes.
Chris Hall (04:10.944)
undersold the mental part of athletics. You know what mean? Like we really don’t do too much for that. So what do you do with your clients to kind of like make sure that they’re bolstered in that area?
Jimmy Moley, MD (04:22.798)
Right, right. You know, I think it’s really a few major buckets. one of the things that we work on a lot is performance optimization, right? So how do we use, you know, primarily psychotherapy techniques and different things like that to really work on elevating performance. So we’re not necessarily talking about, you know, mental health issues as much as we am kind of elevating the mental side and thinking about mental health, not necessarily something, you know, to fix, but something to enhance and use as an asset in the performance realm. So.
That’s definitely one side. We also know too that high performers and athletes specifically often struggle more so with certain types of mental illness, right? What comes to mind a lot is different forms of substance use, rates of PTSD are actually much higher, ADHD, and then some mood and anxiety disorders. So we know there’s probably something about the type of work in athletes and executives that maybe lends itself a little bit more to certain illnesses. there’s also the aspect of managing that.
with either medications, therapy, or a combination of both.
Chris Hall (05:23.98)
Okay. Now you mentioned a few times, executives now. So did that kind of morph in because they’re so similar in the way that they act or was that always the plan for you to be also working with executives?
Jimmy Moley, MD (05:38.658)
You know, it really kind of evolved naturally. say, so I started off with the interest in athletics and came to quickly realize, like you mentioned, the extraordinarily high number of overlapping traits and qualities that it takes to be a high performing executive and how that relates to athletics. Right. So you talk about the dedication, the drive, the almost sole focus right on the craft that lends itself often to success, but at the same time, maybe can create some issues mentally, especially, right.
that need to be addressed. So I think there’s tons of overlap there and I think that my work with one group definitely complements the other as well.
Chris Hall (06:13.188)
Nice. Nice. Okay. Can you tell us like maybe a story or two about some people that you’ve worked with and situations that you’ve managed?
Jimmy Moley, MD (06:21.652)
Absolutely. I’ll give you probably a few kind of the more common, you know, things that I get presented with over the course of time here. Everything obviously depersonalized for privacy reasons. But I would say the number one topic is probably performance anxiety and related anxieties. you know, I think the way we view anxiety as a society, think has shifted over the years, right? So
Chris Hall (06:36.388)
it
Jimmy Moley, MD (06:43.288)
I think in the past, anxiety and the term was always something to run away from, right? To avoid at all costs and being anxious was often seen as a sign of weakness, I think for a long time, right? I think what we’re learning now with the more recent research though is that, you know, anxiety often creates, you know, an activation of our nervous system and allows us to have an edge, right? It allows us to be prepared and to kind of think through all of the possibilities and to really engage and lock in. You think of an athlete right before a big competition, right? You want some level of anxiety.
Chris Hall (06:53.902)
Right.
Jimmy Moley, MD (07:13.292)
The trick really though with that is figuring out when that anxiety crosses the line and when we need to work on it. We want a healthy amount of anxiety without it actually inhibiting your performance. maybe if we’re going into a board meeting or meeting with a client, if you want to be ready, you want to be on edge, but we want to make that not so that it doesn’t really impair your focus and impair your ability to sustain attention and really lock in. So that’s probably the number one thing is trying to find that line and it’s tricky. It’s up to each individual to kind of sit down and…
Chris Hall (07:19.885)
Okay.
Jimmy Moley, MD (07:42.904)
think about maybe where their anxiety comes from and how it’s developed over the course of their life. What are triggers? What are things that help soothe them? I’m a big fan of coming up with very holistic treatment plans too. So we think about all the ways, not just with medications or therapy, but how to diet and exercise and all of these things affect mental health is, I think, has to be part of the conversation.
Chris Hall (07:55.972)
Okay.
Chris Hall (08:05.304)
Okay, I like that. Yeah, my son is a nationally rated long snapper in high school. He’s going into his senior year. We just went to a showcase recently and he’s literally snapping in front of let’s call it 20 division one coaches who are just standing there watching his snaps. And I mean him and you there was like a few other kids there too. But I just thought man, that must just feel like such pressure.
And I was really surprised that how he handles that pressure like he really just kind of just gets in his groove and does his own thing and you know, he has a good snap and maybe he has a Not so good snap and he just kind of keeps plugging away and I think it’s pretty cool like practice I think is huge, you know, I mean the fact that he’s confident because he does a lot of practice but One of the things I always kind of it was just kind of something I noticed was and again I think you’re the reason I mentioned this is because you had said something regarding it
But like we would go to a certain showcase where they would put out a target and like you had to get it inside this red target. And for some reason, man, he would hit the side of that target. Like, you know, if the, if the box is here, he would literally hit the box, but not inside, but he would nail it. Like almost every time he just had, in my opinion, some type of mental block that could, that kept him away from going in that target. Because if you took the target away and put a human being there,
and said, hey, hit me right here, no problem. So it is kind of interesting how, like, thank God that when they play football that there’s not a target back there. There’s actually a human being back there because, you know, he has a hard time with that. But that is interesting to me. Like, I could just kind of see it. Like, he’s so well prepared and so mentally there. And the minute you stick a target in front of him, it’s like, well, this isn’t going to go super great. anyway, but can you speak to that? Kind of like what that looks like for you?
Jimmy Moley, MD (09:59.118)
Now you make a really good point, and I think there’s probably certain sports in certain positions, and maybe even in everyday life too, that lends itself more to that type of issue. So I lung snapping is an excellent example, because it’s more of a singular, repetitive motion. So we see this a lot in more individual type sports, especially, I think of golfers as a big one.
with kind of the mental game behind that and you think of even high profile examples on the PGA Tour and you get in major tournaments and certain holes, certain situations, certain courses that seem to have some sort of mental block. Pitchers are probably another one where we see it very commonly and we can think of all kinds of examples at the major leagues of players that have really struggled and just seem to hit a certain point where the mental side just seems to take over and probably the other most common is maybe field goal kickers.
Chris Hall (10:20.579)
right?
Jimmy Moley, MD (10:48.588)
right in the NFL or college level that really just seemed to struggle and it’s tough because there’s such pressure and such intensity. And even like to bring it back to the example with your son, you think about if he’s thinking in the moment with each snap, like what’s on the line with college and future, can become overwhelming really quickly. it’s how do we channel that? How do we really stay present and mindful in the moment enough to rely on the practice and the reputation to overcome those challenges?
Chris Hall (11:06.308)
Yeah.
Chris Hall (11:15.844)
Now, I’m not a doctor. But one of the things I kind of always try to tell my kids when they were growing up and the coach, I also coach football, so I try to tell them as well. But I say there’s a fine line between like anxiety and excitement. And it’s kind of like it’s really how you’re internalizing that emotion. And so would you agree with that? Or would you kind of say like, no, anxiety is clearly anxiety?
Jimmy Moley, MD (11:42.546)
No, think excitement is a good way to phrase it. I think that it’s way to describe a state where you are focused, you’re locked in, you’re fully present in the moment, right? And you’re not going to feel that way when you’re sitting at home, right, eating breakfast, right? There’s something different about it that creates that state. And there’s a lot of advantages to that, right? Like I said, that’s what allows you to be locked in and to perform your best. I think, you know, however you want to phrase it, I think it makes sense to try to reach that kind of locked in, almost like a psychological state of flow, right?
where you kind of reach that point where you’re just firing on all cylinders. But how do we reach that point? How do we learn to recognize it and figure out what leads us there is the million dollar question, right?
Chris Hall (12:23.588)
Yeah, well, I that’s what you get paid for, Are there a few, are there a few kind of techniques or things like that that you can kind of say are more universal that people, you know, maybe listening to the podcast or watching it could go, Oh, yeah, that I have that issue. And, you know, is there something like, again, like, you know, going back what you said, like, lot of golfers, right, people who play golf, not necessarily good at it, they get on hole number six, and I’m like, man, I hate this hole, I always go in the water. Is there some like techniques that you can use with those?
Jimmy Moley, MD (12:25.72)
Right.
Jimmy Moley, MD (12:48.174)
Right.
Right, know, one of the most common that became popular amongst MLB pitchers probably about five to six years ago was the idea of paced breathing and diaphragmatic breathing. And what that means is ways to control your breath as a way to stay present and mindful in the moment, right? It also probably has biologically an effect on your nervous system. It’s able to kind of calm down some of that excitement and that activation. So like the most common that I’m sure some of our listeners have heard of it is called box breathing, right? Where you…
Chris Hall (13:08.621)
Okay.
Chris Hall (13:21.442)
Yeah.
Jimmy Moley, MD (13:22.23)
Yeah, you inhale for four seconds, hold it for four seconds, exhale for four seconds, and then hold that for four seconds. There’s actually very good scientific evidence that that is able to kind of reduce some of that tension in the nervous system and allow us to become re-centered and re-focused. So, know, whether it’s back breathing and there’s plenty of other techniques or different paced breathing, different grounding techniques, but that’s probably the most common to re-center and really lock in in those moments.
Chris Hall (13:28.793)
Yeah.
Chris Hall (13:48.772)
What sports did you play growing up?
Jimmy Moley, MD (13:52.27)
So I played a little bit of everything. I did some basketball, football, volleyball for a bit, then baseball, but as a younger.
Chris Hall (13:58.693)
Are you athletic now? Do you go out and play sports with your friends and stuff like that just for fun?
Jimmy Moley, MD (14:04.022)
I do, yeah, recreationally. It’s definitely something that is important to me to stay active and engaged.
Chris Hall (14:08.728)
Yeah, what’s your kind of go to on that?
Jimmy Moley, MD (14:11.931)
Probably basketball, yeah, just down at the Rec Center. Yeah, it’s been good.
Chris Hall (14:14.055)
Okay. Nice. That’s cool. Yeah, basketball is a great cardio. So.
Jimmy Moley, MD (14:18.358)
Right, right. I think too, what we’re seeing in older adults too, there’s a social element too, right? There’s a way to kind of stay connected with people, stay active, and there’s a lot of benefits for mental health as well.
Chris Hall (14:26.852)
Right.
Right, I’ve actually just been working on time blocking and just finding different places where I can do certain things. And one of the things that I try to add in to my latest time block was like a Friday morning pickleball thing where, cause I know pickleball is getting really popular and I played it a few times. I enjoy it. It’s pretty good cardio, but you’re not like running all over the place. You know, you’re just kind of staying within a box and you know, getting lots of bursts and stuff. So I, I’ve enjoyed it, but I just feel like it’s really, I think.
And that kind of goes into the healthy wealth thing, right? So I remember it. So I’ll just give you a quick story about me. So when I first started in this business, I started a different broker dealer. And I was there for eight years. And I remember right away, was working really hard. I was working 6 AM to 6 PM, Monday through Friday, and then working half days on Saturdays. And I was just constantly knocking on doors, calling people. I was just doing whatever I needed to do. And I remember I got.
pretty big, fast. I was really growing the business, but I also noticed I was also growing. My body was getting bigger. I was getting fatter. And I realized, I’m going to be 50 years old, and I’m going to be dead. I might have a lot of money, but I’ll be dead. So I need to figure this out. So I stopped. I should say I just stopped. I just started working on, I would go to the gym three days a week in the morning. And yeah, that got me to work a little bit later in the day.
but I felt like I was even more productive because of it. that’s why I think like for you, like what you’re talking about with like, you know, coaching executives as well as, you know, taking care of their mental health, but also taking care of their regular health, you know, goes a long way towards, you know, making them a productive boss. So would you agree with that?
Jimmy Moley, MD (16:12.932)
absolutely. Yeah. I think that we’re learning more and more that, that mental acuity and mental focus relies on physical wellbeing. Right. And I think if, you know, it’s, hard to retrain though, cause like you said, you get in that mindset of, of just staying on the grind and that more hours equals more productivity. and that, that mindset is hard to shake. And especially when you’re doing, when you’re being successful and you’re growing a business or you’re, advancing through your company, that that’s a difficult thing to, shake off. And I think it almost requires some buy-in, right? Some.
Chris Hall (16:20.909)
Yeah.
Jimmy Moley, MD (16:41.294)
some commitment to say, I’m gonna stick with this for, I don’t know, whether it’s 30, 60, 90 days, right? And to look over the long haul and say, maybe I am not being the healthiest version of me and how is that showing up? Because we’re not just doing it for the sake of doing it, right? You’re doing it so that you can be even more productive and even healthier for a longer stretch of time, right? Your pattern may have been successful for, I don’t know, however long things were going for, but maybe in the long run that wasn’t gonna lead to maybe more burnout or more just mental fatigue, right?
Chris Hall (17:10.199)
Right.
Jimmy Moley, MD (17:11.0)
Kind of realizing that you are serving the ultimate goal of being the most productive, happiest, healthiest version of yourself, it just may look a little different than what you’ve traditionally thought of.
Chris Hall (17:20.76)
Yeah. Do you, so like when you meet with executives and athletes, it’s like that, do you kind of meet them where they’re at? Do they come into the office? How does that normally look for you?
Jimmy Moley, MD (17:30.702)
Yeah, so most often I like to do in-person meetings when possible, but I do offer virtual sessions. So we do kind of full medical evaluation. I think big believer in the idea of we need to examine the whole body and be very holistic about things. We know that there’s a lot of medical illnesses that affect mental health. As an example, a lot of people come in concerned for ADHD, especially as an adult.
know, thinking about maybe there’s medical reasons behind this too. know that like sleep apnea, right, is a major cause of attention problems in adults. you know, trying to think holistically, rule certain things out, and then really dive in with a personalized, unique treatment plan.
Chris Hall (18:10.34)
So, do you, what do you, what do you know or think about the whole MTHFR genes and stuff like that? Do you guys do genetic testing to find out if they’ve got some issues with that?
Jimmy Moley, MD (18:23.822)
You know, it’s a mixed bag, honestly, with the genetic testing. I think we’ve come a long way in how we understand genetic testing. And I’d say, you know, what’s really advanced is we know how our bodies break down medications. That’s a big one, and how medications interact with the body. So there are certain circumstances where, you know, if someone’s on multiple medications, we may look at their enzyme makeup and how that all gets broken down. I will say, as part of mental health, that can be kind of frustrating is…
I think we’re a little ways away from those being very predictive in terms of which medications are going to work or how your body gets affected by certain things. I don’t think we’re quite there yet. Now, it doesn’t mean we won’t be, especially, you you think about AI uses and ways to look at large data sets, especially like genetic data. But I don’t think it’s part of regular practice quite yet, but it doesn’t mean it can’t be soon.
Chris Hall (19:13.176)
And you feel like, so what’s like the go-to medication these days for someone who does have like an anxiety?
Jimmy Moley, MD (19:21.222)
So for medication wise, the gold standard is still what we call an SSRI or an SNRI. So you’ve probably, and the listeners I’m sure have heard of some or seen the commercials, Zoloft, Prozac, Lexapro are all very common options. FDA approved as first line. So, you know, those medications though, they’re used over the long haul, right? So they take effect over probably weeks to months as opposed to days. So I’m a big believer in that we really need to pair medications with therapy because I think
Chris Hall (19:34.2)
Okay.
Chris Hall (19:49.582)
Wait.
Jimmy Moley, MD (19:50.158)
understanding anxiety is the key to eventually working through it. I think the human tendency, I mentioned before, is to run away from it, to avoid it. But oftentimes that leads to it just boiling over eventually, right? You can only bury that sort of thing, I think, for too long. And then it comes back. So I think if you pair that with therapy, the medication maybe makes you a little bit more available to talk in therapy and work through those issues. That’s, think, probably the best way to combine those two modalities.
Chris Hall (20:18.326)
Who find, I mean, is your goal ultimately then to get people like maybe on the medication sort of to stabilize them, but then ultimately through therapy and working through their issues, get them off of the medications.
Jimmy Moley, MD (20:29.464)
That is the goal very frequently. mean, I think understandably, most people are very hesitant, especially with mental health medications, right, for a lot of reasons. And from a provider standpoint, know, medications all have risks for side effects, right? They all have potentially long-term negative consequences. So it’s important to be honest and upfront about what those are. And, you know, I always share my goal is to do the most with the least, right? So if we can maximize therapy and we can maximize, maybe get your sleep rate, your sleep schedule right, get you exercising more.
know, fix up your diet, then maybe we don’t even need medications or just maybe for a short time. So I think that that’s always the goal.
Chris Hall (21:05.925)
I think you had mentioned like the sleep schedule has a lot to do with ADHD and stuff like that. Like what do you typically, what are your kind of like go-to points on how to get people sleep schedule where they want it, you know, where they should be?
Jimmy Moley, MD (21:10.552)
Mm-hmm.
Jimmy Moley, MD (21:18.254)
Right, right. Sleep is one of those things that just has so many wide-ranging effects, right? You think about everything on a day-to-day basis, pretty much gets touched by your sleep. And we’re learning more and more as the research goes along. So what I always like to start with is capturing data, right? We want to be data-driven. So we want to take a look at when you’re sleeping at night, when you’re falling asleep, when you’re waking up. So if we build a pattern, we can look at it analytically, kind of pick out where things are going wrong, and then address it. mean, there’s a lot of good therapies out there for sleep.
There’s some medications I think that can be useful in the right purposes. There’s vitamins, supplements, and all sorts of different, kind of more natural ways to address that. I think sleep is one of those things that I think often gets overlooked or put on the back burner, but we’re learning more and more that it has really wide-ranging effects.
Chris Hall (22:05.668)
What are some good supplements out there? mean, I’ve heard of melatonin, which is actually, from what I understand, is actually a hormone. Is that correct?
Jimmy Moley, MD (22:09.997)
Mm-hmm.
Jimmy Moley, MD (22:14.794)
It is, yeah, it’s a sort of vitamin-ish compound and it works really primarily by regulating someone’s circadian rhythm. So it’s actually best taken on a consistent basis, two to three hours before someone wants to fall asleep. And it really is best at that long-term regulation. It’s not something that you’re gonna become physically dependent on or something that is going to make you drop over the five minutes after you take it, right? But over time, can definitely help in a pretty natural way with very minimal risk.
Chris Hall (22:44.438)
Okay. All right. Very cool. So again, you were you were at Ohio State. Obviously, they just won the national championship in football. So were you able to in any way, shape or form be at that game or?
Jimmy Moley, MD (23:00.182)
as I actually was and I had the unique perspective having went to both Notre Dame and Ohio State. it was a pretty cool experience. So it was great.
Chris Hall (23:06.049)
wow. Was it hard to root?
Jimmy Moley, MD (23:10.062)
You know, I grew up in Cleveland, grew up a Buckeye fan, so that’s kind of the way I went there. yeah, it was kind of a no-lose situation at least.
Chris Hall (23:14.392)
Made it pretty easy.
That’s pretty cool. I like that. Yeah. Let’s see. So when it comes to your background, you’ve been in your medical practice, you said since 24, right? Okay. Okay. And then you have a partner in your practice? that what I read? Okay.
Jimmy Moley, MD (23:19.928)
That was a lot of
Jimmy Moley, MD (23:29.036)
Yes, yes, they’re coming up on here right now.
Jimmy Moley, MD (23:35.211)
No, yeah, it’s just me. So, I made the relatively unique step of going straight private after residency.
Chris Hall (23:40.709)
I’m so sorry. I thought I read something about being a co-founder of it. So interesting No, I mean my name of my company is reading financial advisors and at this point it’s just me as well But I just wanted to be able to be able to bring somebody on if I wanted to down the road and you know that kind of thing So that’s very cool. So So if someone wanted to get in touch with you or talk to you about more about this kind of a thing like what would be the best way to
Jimmy Moley, MD (23:45.76)
No, yeah, it’s maybe eventually down the road, for now, it’s me.
Jimmy Moley, MD (24:01.166)
Right. Right.
Chris Hall (24:10.424)
to get a hold of you and I’ll make sure to put links to your stuff in the podcast so people can see it.
Jimmy Moley, MD (24:16.514)
Yeah, absolutely. So my website’s the easiest place to get more information. There’s also a form on there too. You can fill out and if you’re interested in having more of an in-depth conversation. So the website is jimmy.com
Chris Hall (24:26.35)
Thank
Chris Hall (24:31.492)
Okay, within obviously you want to individualize patient care and talk to people about their situations, know, one-off, know, custom stuff like that. But like what are like just like two or three things that you could have somebody like, you know, you say, listen, I don’t even need to meet you. I just know that in general Americans or whoever need to have these three things that would help both with their mental acuity, their mental health, their anxiety, et cetera.
Like what would you name those like just give me like three things that you think that everybody in America probably needs a little bit more of.
Jimmy Moley, MD (25:05.006)
Sure, So I’m a big believer in physical movement and physical exercise. We’ve already touched on it briefly, but I really think the more we learn that that is oftentimes more effective than a lot of the medications we prescribe, to be honest with you. think it, we know based on the hormones that get released and the muscle breakdown and things like that, there’s just tremendous benefit for mental health and pretty much regardless of what the issue is, whether it’s anxiety, ADHD, depression.
even more, you know, what we might consider quote unquote more serious mental illness like bipolar, schizophrenia, all exercise just has universal benefit across the board. So always recommend that.
Chris Hall (25:39.268)
Okay. you, based on studies and things like that, do you care what kind of exercise it is? Should it be cardiovascular? Should it be anaerobic, aerobic, heavy lifting, light lifting?
Jimmy Moley, MD (25:49.558)
Yeah, that’s a good question. And, you know, I would say the research so far has been pretty conclusive that it really does not matter. that, that it really, what matters more is the intensity and the time. you know, the American Heart Association recommends 150 minutes a week of moderate to, high intensity workout, right? so that, that’s kind of the loose guideline that I like to follow, but, know, that looks different for everybody. So I would say wherever you’re at in your kind of fitness, physical health journey, that, that even a little bit of increase, would go probably a long way.
that. You know you mentioned kind of… no, you’re fine, good.
Chris Hall (26:20.644)
It’s like even if people are at home and they can’t, I’m sorry, go ahead.
So even if people are out and about, like they can’t get out of the house, they’re like maybe homebound or they’re not super, you know, movable. Like even those people can find things to do resistance exercise with bands. And, you know, I mean, I actually, I don’t know, it’s, I think it was Herschel Walker. I think it was Herschel Walker who used to do like a thousand pushups and a thousand air squats, like every day and a thousand sit ups, like every day. didn’t even go to the gym. I don’t know if you remember what Herschel Walk looked like, but he was a machine. So.
I think that you can get exercise wherever you want it. And I think that what you’ve gotten to is like, you play basketball because it’s also fun, it’s communal. I think that’s a huge part too, but I do think that people do need to move their bodies. What would be a second one for you?
Jimmy Moley, MD (27:09.738)
I actually just hit on it there briefly is the social connectedness, right? And is the relationship aspect of what it means to be a person, right, in society. And I think the tricky part is that oftentimes states of depression, anxiety, of mental stress, the tendency is to self-isolate, right? Is to push other people away, is to want to deal with things on our own in our own little silo. But oftentimes that just makes things worse, right?
Chris Hall (27:13.39)
Yeah.
Jimmy Moley, MD (27:36.366)
You know, we look at a lot of studies, especially among younger people, that the level of social connectedness, there’s a direct correlation with happiness scales, less rates of depression. So I think we’re learning more and more, and we’ve always probably intuitively known that interpersonal connection is really the key to a lot of things.
Chris Hall (27:53.637)
Yeah, you know, I think I just read this the other day too, is that, you know, they talked about the blue zones, I remember the blue zones. So they’ve thought for a long time that the blue zones might have, you know, so much to do with diet. And now they’re, they’re actually really kind of repurposing that and saying that they think it has to do more with those areas have very good
communal aspects that people do hang out together and they do they don’t sit in their houses and watch TV all day they actually move around and talk to each other and hang out like at cafes and and they have more of a communal aspect so so I think that’s I think that’s right on the money you know people need to they need to be in a community and you know obviously the church has really done a very good job with that you know they they you know they not only bring people in on Sundays but they try to get them to small groups and they try to get them to home groups and they
And I do think that that helps a lot of people, you know, in that in that situation to, you know, have people to talk to and have people to maybe vent a little bit. So that’s really good. I appreciate that. What would be like the third thing?
Jimmy Moley, MD (29:01.294)
Yeah, you know, we already touched on, I think, mindfulness briefly. So think we’ve covered a lot of that. I’d like to talk just a little bit about diet too and what we bring into our bodies. Right. And we know that, um, you know, I think it’s always known that intuitively you want to eat healthy. Right. But, again, the impact on mental state, I think really can’t be, can’t be understated. I think, you know, terms of, of fueling our body, fueling our mind and, and being able to, to function well and diet is so big. Right. And a lot of times, you know, it’s a
Chris Hall (29:08.494)
Sure.
Jimmy Moley, MD (29:27.594)
It affects how medications affect us, it affects how much energy we have, how much sleep we’re able to get, and talk about as really being a cornerstone, I think something that needs to be addressed.
Chris Hall (29:36.707)
Yeah, I think that that’s really, really insightful. And I feel like that food can either be medicine or poison. And sometimes it’s what you eat, but sometimes it’s a dose too, right? So that’s that’s really good. Are there any specific things food wise that you think like people should kind of stay away from? You know, obviously, there’s a whole list of argument, right? There’s the the people who are still with the food pyramid, and they think that you should do these things and not these things.
And then there’s the other people who are like the food pyramid was never supposed to be a good thing. you know, so they’re like full fat. These guys are nonfat. These guys are low carb. These guys are full carb, you know. So like, what are your what are your thoughts on like how that works for the mental side of things? What would you recommend?
Jimmy Moley, MD (30:21.89)
Yeah, know, because I think the medical community as a whole, think, tends to shy away from more of the extreme trends, right, especially in the dieting world. And there’s a lot that gets baked into that, right? There’s a lot of kind of, you know, advertising and, you know, media influence and social media, especially. I think really when it comes down to it, you want to eat a well-balanced, healthy diet. You want to be able to fuel yourself, you know, avoid processed foods as much as possible. And really, you know, I think just try to…
Create a well-balanced diet where you get pretty a wide balance of nutritional needs. I think I tend to shy away from, like I said, of specific diets, specific dietary plans, because everyone is a little bit different too, right? So I think really just a focus on kind of what makes sense for each individual person, making small incremental gains, will go a lot farther than saying everyone needs to adhere to a specific type of plan or a specific dietary regimen.
Chris Hall (31:00.174)
Sure.
Chris Hall (31:14.468)
Yeah, I had a guy on the show a few weeks ago, that he was a big proponent of the carnivore diet. And I know that’s really gaining a lot of popularity. So what’s had been popular for a long time, was really called Atkins. And then it was keto and then was South Beach. now it’s you know, carnivore is like, so it’s just different variations of like no carbohydrate or low carbohydrate. So I do know that, like, I’ve noticed that for me, specifically, like I’m
Jimmy Moley, MD (31:21.432)
Mm-hmm.
Jimmy Moley, MD (31:27.234)
Mm-hmm. Right.
Jimmy Moley, MD (31:35.95)
Mm-hmm.
Chris Hall (31:42.701)
like practically like allergic to carbohydrates. So like if I eat carbohydrates, I’m in, I don’t feel good. I’m inflamed. I don’t, I just really don’t do well. and then, and then if I eat carbohydrates, I usually, you know, gain weight. Maybe it’s water weight. Maybe it’s regular weight. I’m not sure. But, so for me, but it’s funny, like I noticed like, I’ve noticed like specifically like women, if women go to like a non carbohydrate diet, they do not do well. Like they’re
I would say that in general, that feels like their mental acuity isn’t as good. And I know that that’s a general rule and hopefully I won’t get totally beat up in the comments on that. I’m just saying it’s not a general rule. I’m just saying in my personal experience and of a few, that it seems like they don’t do well without carbohydrates. Do you feel like that’s a thing that’s scientifically kind of got some background to it is that just me with the people that I know?
Jimmy Moley, MD (32:38.99)
Well, I think your point that it’s all very individual based, right? I think that that makes a lot of sense. And I think for some people, it probably affects everyone differently. And everybody has a different relationship with food, right? There’s an emotional side of eating and kind of using food as a way to cope and things like that and cultural elements of food. So I really think, you know, it is really just kind of on that individual level. So meeting people where they’re at, understanding, you know, where we can make maybe five, 10 % improvements.
Chris Hall (32:43.042)
Yeah, good save. Good save. Thanks. Yeah.
Jimmy Moley, MD (33:07.022)
in diet just goes a long way towards improving mentally and physical health.
Chris Hall (33:12.994)
Yeah. Do you have any kids married or anything?
Jimmy Moley, MD (33:15.6)
Married, no kids yet.
Chris Hall (33:17.891)
Okay, so we’re gonna fast forward. You have a couple kids They’re five. They’re six years old. They want to play sports Are we specifically moving them to a certain kind of a sport? Are we trying to like guide them into a sport? Are we are we just like hey, whatever you want to do is fine Or what what does that look like for you guys?
Jimmy Moley, MD (33:34.894)
You know, I think what we’re learning, and this kind of speaks to a lot of things, that kind of, you know, specifying a sport early on and kind of really staying really specific oftentimes is not helpful. That, you know, kind of having that wide range of activities and getting exposed to a lot of different skill sets and athletic environments can really be really helpful. I think, you know, like the classic example I think used is like Roger Futter played like, you know, basically every single sport.
up, right? And it just you learn different skills from different sports. So I think that allows you to explore, especially at a young age like that,
Chris Hall (34:07.31)
probably helps with your mental toughness too, because the different the differences and anxiety are, are, you know, sports sport. There are certain moments like in baseball. I played a little bit of baseball growing up, but football was my main sport. When I was playing baseball, you know, I always said like there was when it was three, when there was bases loaded, and you were down and there’s, you know, three, three balls and two strikes and two outs. Like there’s some people who really want to be at the plate. And there’s other people who are like, No way not ever.
And like I was a guy who I wanted to be at bat. wanted to be at I wanted to be that guy who hit the ball. You know, but I know that other people don’t want to do that, you know, so it’s kind of like it kind of I think it helps you like overcome that anxiety, you know, for long term as well. You know, urban Meyer, right urban Meyer, he’s that was his big thing, too. He would say that like 80 % of his, I think it was 80 or 90 % of his school, his scholarship athletes, he would he would say played two or more sports in high school.
He was a big fan of like multiple sports and he didn’t like these guys. I mean, I didn’t say he didn’t like them, but he preferred people who had range. He didn’t want people who had been like, you know, like, you know, I know people who have had their kids and, you know, tackle football since they were five when the helmet looks like a big old bobblehead, you know, and they, and they’re doing that. And that’s like, they play nothing but that. And I have another, you know, parents, I know that have had their kids in travel ball since they were six.
and they travel three or four hours every weekend to go play. it’s like, just, and I remember I coached flag football for a really long time and we would always kind of bump into travel ball kids. And it was like, you know, Hey, I can’t be, I can’t be at the game on the fourth, on the fourth Saturday because we’re all in a big tournament in Reno. I’m like, it’s football season. Like, what are you playing baseball for? But they’d never stopped playing. So
I’m actually not a huge fan of the year round sports, regardless of the sport. I’m a big football guy, but I don’t think the football should be year round. think that, excuse me, I think football players should play basketball. think football players should play to run track. You know, I do feel that way. So I’m on board with you and, and coach urban Meyer. I’m pretty on board with that too. So yeah, well, that’s great. Well, before we cut out here, is there anything else that you want to talk about anything that you want to mention?
Jimmy Moley, MD (36:14.53)
Yeah.
Jimmy Moley, MD (36:21.742)
I guess as a general theme, always like to kind of push forward the idea that I think the way we see mental health is changing and I think needs to change and shift more from thinking about it as something to fix or something to deal with or something that only is worth paying attention to when it goes wrong to how do we think about it more? it a using it as an advantage? Right? How do we gain a competitive edge with mental health and how do we use it as a tool in the toolkit? Not just something that could go wrong. So more of a preventative enhancement type of way, think.
Chris Hall (36:43.332)
Excuse me.
Jimmy Moley, MD (36:51.66)
could go a long way whether you’re an athlete, an executive, or really anybody looking to achieve a goal. think that using the mental health aspect to help you reach that goal can be very important.
Chris Hall (37:02.48)
Besides one-on-one, you have like, are you working on any books or you have your own podcast or anything like that? Where can people get more information from you? Besides, you know, obviously calling the office and making an appointment.
Jimmy Moley, MD (37:14.094)
Right, yeah, I’ve done a fair number of podcast appearances here, also working on a, just did a research, a scientific research project on artificial intelligence and how do we use that to enhance mental health. So there’ll be a paper coming out on that soon. So all coming up and all exciting stuff. Yeah, no, I think we’re learning that, you know, a lot of the like wearable devices and a lot of, um, kind of data like that can be fed into these large language models, uh, really exciting technology ways that we can both predict future performance and also look to enhance it. So, you know, like real time feedback.
Chris Hall (37:26.254)
Can you give me a preview?
Jimmy Moley, MD (37:43.788)
different techniques and understanding things is really, really exciting.
Chris Hall (37:47.855)
So I actually would like to dig into that a little bit, if you don’t mind. So are we talking about like, you say wearables. Like I know that my son’s football team, wear catapults. Are you familiar with those? So is that the kind of device you’re talking about? Or is there something more more EEG, EKG type stuff that you’re talking about? What do you mean by wearables?
Jimmy Moley, MD (38:07.826)
wearables is a huge umbrella, right? It encompasses their sleep monitors, heart rate monitors, sleep monitors, right? I think the most common, like the Apple Watch Fitbit type ones, right? And those have probably 10 to 20 different unique sensors in them, right? They can all track different things. So I think it’s such a, it’s an interesting topic, but it’s a huge topic and a huge umbrella.
Chris Hall (38:27.364)
So like for us non-Apple users, more like an aura ring would be another one too. Yeah. OK. OK. And then they’re using AI to sort of like kind of find out certain things about like using that to analyze the data, not just have the data, but say, hey, listen, we’ve been watching your heart rate and we noticed that every time you do this, you know, blah, blah, blah, maybe you should be more mindful of that or something like that.
Jimmy Moley, MD (38:29.71)
Yeah, or a ring Fitbit. Right, exactly.
Jimmy Moley, MD (38:52.118)
Yeah, what’s really cool is we’re using it now to almost design training regimens, right? So we track, say, you you wear some sort of wearable device and then we’re able to see maybe when your heart rate, measure your heart rate for your ability, your metabolic rates. And now maybe we have to adjust your training regimen, right? To match up with how your body kind of naturally fluctuates throughout the day. Or we’re looking at sleep patterns or very personalized, you know, training regimens that are not just kind of standardized across the board. So I think huge potential. And I think this is somewhere where it’s really going to be going in the future.
Chris Hall (39:20.398)
I think that really works well for executives as well too, you know, because I know personally, like I’m better in the morning. Like I am, I’m more personable. I’m more acute. I mean, I am better in the morning and I usually do like a lunch, you know, appointment or something like that. And then I’ll usually do appointment right after lunch. And then usually I kind of take off because I have some sort of football thing going on, you know, in the early afternoon, like three or four o’clock. But
Jimmy Moley, MD (39:23.468)
All right.
Chris Hall (39:48.449)
I know that like for me, like if I’m going to do like a project, I’ve got to do that project in the morning. So, you know, when I’m meeting with my clients, it’s actually super easy for me because I’m just I’m so into what I do. You know, like I like it’s like for me, it’s like I coach football in the afternoon and I coach clients in the daytime. I like coaching. So it’s like I don’t I don’t really I can do that anytime a day. So I guess what I’m saying, because it’s something I am enjoying and it fires me up and I immediately get passionate about it.
But they’re like, hey, I need you to do this project. need these 16 things from you. I’ve got to do it in the morning. If you’re going to try to get me at 3 o’clock in the afternoon for a big project, this is not going to work. So I think that the wearables probably work for that too, right? mean, people’s heart rates and base metabolic rates and things like that all kind of play into how productive they can be and when they’re the most productive.
Jimmy Moley, MD (40:39.138)
Right, right, and the goal is to match you when you’re most productive to the best environment for that productivity, right? We wanna try to get everything to align as best we can. So if we can get data, know, when you’re doing things, when you’re coaching, when you’re working with clients, you’re not thinking about your heart rate or things metabolically that are happening in the background. So if we can add that data and use that as part of our decision making, I think it’s only gonna get better.
Chris Hall (40:46.009)
Right.
Chris Hall (41:02.993)
Is that article out already?
Jimmy Moley, MD (41:05.063)
So I just actually gave the presentation this past weekend, so the article should hopefully be out in next few months.
Chris Hall (41:09.848)
Okay, okay, it was if it was that I was gonna tag it for you so Okay, but we’ll we’ll We’ll send people to your website. We’ll send people to your Instagram Are you active? I think I saw you had a Twitter to are you are you active on that as well?
Jimmy Moley, MD (41:13.27)
I appreciate it. stay tuned, but definitely a lot of exciting research.
Jimmy Moley, MD (41:24.204)
Yeah, Instagram is probably the main one, but yeah, Twitter as well and the website for all the information.
Chris Hall (41:27.278)
Okay. Okay, great. All right. Well, I really appreciate you being here and I’m super thankful and grateful for you to take your time out of your day to talk to me about this stuff. If anybody has any questions, I’m going to leave the links for in order to get a hold of Dr. Molle. And if you do you have anything else to say before we take off?
Jimmy Moley, MD (41:47.822)
I just wanted to say thank you. I appreciate the time.
Chris Hall (41:49.356)
Okay, yeah, absolutely. No, I’m really thankful for you being here. you know, hopefully, I know I got some things out of it today. And hopefully our listeners get some things out of it. you know, I’d love to have you back as this thing advance or if you have something else that comes up that’s kind of cool, like the AI thing, you know, stuff like that, get a hold of me and we’ll get you back on. All right. Thank you for your time.
Jimmy Moley, MD (42:08.622)
Absolutely, thank you.
Chris Hall (42:15.077)
Okay, all right.